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	<title>Comments for Vision Of Earth</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.visionofearth.org/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.visionofearth.org</link>
	<description>For a Better Tomorrow</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:23:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Nuclear Plants Need Backup Generators by Nuclear Myth and Fact Project</title>
		<link>http://www.visionofearth.org/industry/nuclear-plants-need-backup-generators/comment-page-1/#comment-8122</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuclear Myth and Fact Project</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.visionofearth.org/?p=500#comment-8122</guid>
		<description>[...] are now beginning to publish our work on this subject. Today the first post on the subject of why nuclear plants need backup power was publicized. Many more are in the process of being written, so stay [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are now beginning to publish our work on this subject. Today the first post on the subject of why nuclear plants need backup power was publicized. Many more are in the process of being written, so stay [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hydroelectricity by Nuclear Plants Need Backup Generators</title>
		<link>http://www.visionofearth.org/industry/hydroelectricity/comment-page-1/#comment-8121</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuclear Plants Need Backup Generators</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.visionofearth.org/?p=30#comment-8121</guid>
		<description>[...] Saskatchewan&#8217;s power when the Nuclear Plant is running, and they would turn on more of their hydroelectric generators if the nuclear plant had to go down. This is thanks to the energy storage capability of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Saskatchewan&#8217;s power when the Nuclear Plant is running, and they would turn on more of their hydroelectric generators if the nuclear plant had to go down. This is thanks to the energy storage capability of [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Critique of Saskatchewan&#8217;s UDP Report by Nuclear Myth and Fact Project</title>
		<link>http://www.visionofearth.org/industry/critique-of-saskatchewans-udp-report-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8120</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuclear Myth and Fact Project</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.visionofearth.org/?p=79#comment-8120</guid>
		<description>[...] We decided to conduct our own investigations into the feasibility of expanding the nuclear industries of Saskatchewan. This was an entirely volunteer effort, usually conducted on weekends and during lulls in semesters. Most of us were still working on finishing our respective degrees. The result was our critique of the UDP report. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We decided to conduct our own investigations into the feasibility of expanding the nuclear industries of Saskatchewan. This was an entirely volunteer effort, usually conducted on weekends and during lulls in semesters. Most of us were still working on finishing our respective degrees. The result was our critique of the UDP report. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Nuclear Power: The Whole Story by Nuclear Myth and Fact Project</title>
		<link>http://www.visionofearth.org/industry/nuclear-power-the-whole-story/comment-page-1/#comment-8119</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuclear Myth and Fact Project</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 04:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.visionofearth.org/?p=85#comment-8119</guid>
		<description>[...] range of dubious to outright myth. In hindsight we realize this is an understandable outcome, with nuclear power being such an important, complex and emotionally charged [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] range of dubious to outright myth. In hindsight we realize this is an understandable outcome, with nuclear power being such an important, complex and emotionally charged [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Nuclear Power: The Whole Story by Nuclear Plants Need Backup Generators</title>
		<link>http://www.visionofearth.org/industry/nuclear-power-the-whole-story/comment-page-1/#comment-8118</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuclear Plants Need Backup Generators</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 03:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.visionofearth.org/?p=85#comment-8118</guid>
		<description>[...] into service enough power to make up for the loss of its largest generator on short notice. For a nuclear generator, this would be between 300 and 2000 MW. In our home province of Saskatchewan, the largest single [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] into service enough power to make up for the loss of its largest generator on short notice. For a nuclear generator, this would be between 300 and 2000 MW. In our home province of Saskatchewan, the largest single [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Nuclear Power: The Whole Story by What does ‘renewable’ mean after all?</title>
		<link>http://www.visionofearth.org/industry/nuclear-power-the-whole-story/comment-page-1/#comment-8113</link>
		<dc:creator>What does ‘renewable’ mean after all?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 06:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.visionofearth.org/?p=85#comment-8113</guid>
		<description>[...] not using techniques to unlock vastly more energy from the fuel. These techniques would involve ‘reprocessing’ the fuel and sending it back through the reactor. In order for the fuel to work again, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not using techniques to unlock vastly more energy from the fuel. These techniques would involve ‘reprocessing’ the fuel and sending it back through the reactor. In order for the fuel to work again, [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Conscientious Future by Before Vision of Earth Existed</title>
		<link>http://www.visionofearth.org/mandate/conscientious-future/comment-page-1/#comment-8112</link>
		<dc:creator>Before Vision of Earth Existed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 04:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.visionofearth.org/?page_id=451#comment-8112</guid>
		<description>[...] Conscientious Future [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Conscientious Future [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wind Power by Kyle Laskowski</title>
		<link>http://www.visionofearth.org/industry/wind-power/comment-page-1/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Laskowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.visionofearth.org/?p=6#comment-451</guid>
		<description>First to address your first question, about the investment for large scale power projects. A wind project requires land rent/taxes and maintenance costs over its lifetime, while the majority of power plants (coal, natural gas, even nuclear) also incur fuel costs over their lifetime. These power plants do not contain all of the fuel that they will burn over their lifetime on site at construction. This substantial cost is the key difference, those power plant types can incur those costs gradually, spreading out the debt load over time.

Second question, a more distributed population works best with distributed power. When discussing mega-projects the transmission costs are often included because they are relatively small when compared to the other costs. The distribution pattern would have to be adjusted accordingly with particularly dense areas, and those adjustments would either increase transmission costs or cause intermittency to be more of a problem by increasing the wind farm density near those cities.

Regarding non-grid small scale power, I imagine some of those industries are smart enough to do that themselves, without government intervention. After all, if you think it will save you money, why wouldn&#039;t they do it themselves?

Your last question, this distance would be highly dependent on the state and other uses for the infrastructure in question. This problem can become very complex very fast as you analyze a line with multiple users at different locations, etc. 
Also, I wouldn&#039;t consider this a &#039;grid&#039; problem, because if you truely want to remove that power line to save money, the person has to have a substantial enough power system to go completely grid-less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First to address your first question, about the investment for large scale power projects. A wind project requires land rent/taxes and maintenance costs over its lifetime, while the majority of power plants (coal, natural gas, even nuclear) also incur fuel costs over their lifetime. These power plants do not contain all of the fuel that they will burn over their lifetime on site at construction. This substantial cost is the key difference, those power plant types can incur those costs gradually, spreading out the debt load over time.</p>
<p>Second question, a more distributed population works best with distributed power. When discussing mega-projects the transmission costs are often included because they are relatively small when compared to the other costs. The distribution pattern would have to be adjusted accordingly with particularly dense areas, and those adjustments would either increase transmission costs or cause intermittency to be more of a problem by increasing the wind farm density near those cities.</p>
<p>Regarding non-grid small scale power, I imagine some of those industries are smart enough to do that themselves, without government intervention. After all, if you think it will save you money, why wouldn&#8217;t they do it themselves?</p>
<p>Your last question, this distance would be highly dependent on the state and other uses for the infrastructure in question. This problem can become very complex very fast as you analyze a line with multiple users at different locations, etc.<br />
Also, I wouldn&#8217;t consider this a &#8216;grid&#8217; problem, because if you truely want to remove that power line to save money, the person has to have a substantial enough power system to go completely grid-less.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Energy Storage by Gabe Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.visionofearth.org/industry/energy-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-440</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabe Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 06:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.visionofearth.org/?p=32#comment-440</guid>
		<description>In addition to agreeing with Kyle&#039;s response, I&#039;d like to say something about the comment &quot;Is not science - at least - supposed to be neutral!? Or perhaps innocent until proven guilty?&quot;

Regardless of what you may think science is &quot;supposed to be&quot;, it has never been and will never be politically neutral. Science is not conducted in a vacuum (insert Torricelli joke here), it is a social activity and pertains to society&#039;s past and future. If it did not (which would be impossible), it would be irrelevant. 

Actually I hear this argument all the time and am convinced that, unless you are extremely naive, you are using it as an excuse for why society should further conduct YOUR view of science. Thomas Kuhn pointed out as much in his book &quot;The Structure of Scientific Revolutions&quot; over forty years ago.

---

More controversially, I would suggest that scientific programs should not even be given the benefit of presumed innocence. Weapons researchers and marketing psychologists use this one often: &quot;It wasn&#039;t us who pulled the trigger or pressed the button!&quot;, &quot;It wasn&#039;t us who sold the high fructose corn syrup to the toddlers!&quot;

&quot;Innocent until proven guilty&quot; works well for the legal system because there is less harm done to society as a whole if we let an individual murderer go free than if we execute an innocent man. It does not work well for science, because obtaining &quot;proof&quot; that a scientific program has harmed or will harm society is much more difficult, and the societal risks much larger.

CFC&#039;s were no doubt originally considered &quot;good&quot; for society by providing efficient refridgeration for the masses, but we now know enough to have banned them. Unfortunately, in the interim serious damage was done to the ozone layer.

On the other hand, does global climate change need to be proven beyond &quot;any reasonable doubt&quot; before we realize the danger of overconsumption of carbon-heavy energy sources? Presumed innocence of coal-fired power plants and mass-produced gasoline-powered cars may well come round to bite us in the ass, as we are currently discovering.

Instead we should be putting MORE resources into scientifically investigating the ramifications of our actions as a scientifically advanced society. The best science available to us, honestly communicated to the public and government officials in a timely manner, is the only way we can move forward responsibly. Too many of our resources are currently being devoted to immediately &quot;profitable&quot; scientific research, while programs to gauge the environmental and socioeconomic consequences of these discoveries are neglected or suppressed.

This will of course in no way guarantee our success as a society, but to do otherwise would be irresponsible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to agreeing with Kyle&#8217;s response, I&#8217;d like to say something about the comment &#8220;Is not science &#8211; at least &#8211; supposed to be neutral!? Or perhaps innocent until proven guilty?&#8221;</p>
<p>Regardless of what you may think science is &#8220;supposed to be&#8221;, it has never been and will never be politically neutral. Science is not conducted in a vacuum (insert Torricelli joke here), it is a social activity and pertains to society&#8217;s past and future. If it did not (which would be impossible), it would be irrelevant. </p>
<p>Actually I hear this argument all the time and am convinced that, unless you are extremely naive, you are using it as an excuse for why society should further conduct YOUR view of science. Thomas Kuhn pointed out as much in his book &#8220;The Structure of Scientific Revolutions&#8221; over forty years ago.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>More controversially, I would suggest that scientific programs should not even be given the benefit of presumed innocence. Weapons researchers and marketing psychologists use this one often: &#8220;It wasn&#8217;t us who pulled the trigger or pressed the button!&#8221;, &#8220;It wasn&#8217;t us who sold the high fructose corn syrup to the toddlers!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Innocent until proven guilty&#8221; works well for the legal system because there is less harm done to society as a whole if we let an individual murderer go free than if we execute an innocent man. It does not work well for science, because obtaining &#8220;proof&#8221; that a scientific program has harmed or will harm society is much more difficult, and the societal risks much larger.</p>
<p>CFC&#8217;s were no doubt originally considered &#8220;good&#8221; for society by providing efficient refridgeration for the masses, but we now know enough to have banned them. Unfortunately, in the interim serious damage was done to the ozone layer.</p>
<p>On the other hand, does global climate change need to be proven beyond &#8220;any reasonable doubt&#8221; before we realize the danger of overconsumption of carbon-heavy energy sources? Presumed innocence of coal-fired power plants and mass-produced gasoline-powered cars may well come round to bite us in the ass, as we are currently discovering.</p>
<p>Instead we should be putting MORE resources into scientifically investigating the ramifications of our actions as a scientifically advanced society. The best science available to us, honestly communicated to the public and government officials in a timely manner, is the only way we can move forward responsibly. Too many of our resources are currently being devoted to immediately &#8220;profitable&#8221; scientific research, while programs to gauge the environmental and socioeconomic consequences of these discoveries are neglected or suppressed.</p>
<p>This will of course in no way guarantee our success as a society, but to do otherwise would be irresponsible.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Project by Gabe Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.visionofearth.org/mandate/comment-page-1/#comment-7732</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabe Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wwwdev.visionofearth.org/?p=3#comment-7732</guid>
		<description>Gentlemen, nice idea for a blog! A few offhand remarks:

&quot;Our goal is to understand the reality of our society as it exists today, and to investigate the possibilities for improvement&quot;
- A noble goal, however preposterously unachievable. Those are the best kinds.

&quot;...our investigations are as unbiased as we are capable of making them&quot;
- A nontrivial task, to say the least. Here&#039;s an interesting and semi-related piece by Eliezer Yudkowsky, a cool guy:

http://yudkowsky.net/rational/cognitive-biases

Finally, I hope that you will continue in your endeavors. I&#039;ll pipe in from time to time when I feel like I have something to say, if you&#039;ll have me.

Cheerio.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gentlemen, nice idea for a blog! A few offhand remarks:</p>
<p>&#8220;Our goal is to understand the reality of our society as it exists today, and to investigate the possibilities for improvement&#8221;<br />
- A noble goal, however preposterously unachievable. Those are the best kinds.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;our investigations are as unbiased as we are capable of making them&#8221;<br />
- A nontrivial task, to say the least. Here&#8217;s an interesting and semi-related piece by Eliezer Yudkowsky, a cool guy:</p>
<p><a href="http://yudkowsky.net/rational/cognitive-biases" rel="nofollow">http://yudkowsky.net/rational/cognitive-biases</a></p>
<p>Finally, I hope that you will continue in your endeavors. I&#8217;ll pipe in from time to time when I feel like I have something to say, if you&#8217;ll have me.</p>
<p>Cheerio.</p>
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